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Talk:Phokas
I was just thinking--Shouldn't Roman and Byzantine emperors have their title and/or empire incorporated into their article titles, like other monarchs? Turtle Fan 03:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC) :I've been hesitant to do that with the Byzantines since of course they didn't call themselves the Byzantines. TR 04:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC) ::No, but a lot of monarchs didn't call themselves by the names we've got them under. Everyone whose name ends in I, for starters, with the exception of Maximillian. Turtle Fan 04:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC) :Are we using Wikipedia as a guide in this case? The Roman/Byzantine emperor articles there didn't include title and state as part of the article title. Jelay14 01:55, 21 June 2009 (UTC) ::Are we? It would be news to me. I bring it up as a matter of preserving internal consistency within our own project. For the same reason that I assumed we moved Swemmel to Swemmel of Unkerlant, et cetera. Turtle Fan 03:12, 21 June 2009 (UTC) :::I didn't know we were using that convention for Derlavai monarchs. As a discussion point, Wikipedia uses the "sovereign x of state y" formula for post-Fall of Rome European and associated history, since many of the states and their sovereigns used the sames regal names. Jelay14 04:43, 21 June 2009 (UTC) ::::It's starting to catch on in Derlavai. It's not really necessary, since there are so few characters with repeat names, but internal consistency is nice. It's the same principle that sent us on a Noblemen-moving blitz a week or two ago. Turtle Fan 20:25, 21 June 2009 (UTC) Regicide vs Murder Victim Isn't regicide just a particular type of murder? If so, then double cating seems redundant. We do have "Victims of Regicide" as a sub-cat of "Murder Victims". ML4E (talk) 23:55, January 22, 2018 (UTC) :I was meaning to bring this one up and then forgot. We're ok with calling this a regicide, correct? TR (talk) 00:02, January 23, 2018 (UTC) ::Regicide isn't always by murder. Charles I of England and Louis XVI of France were victims of legalistic regicide.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 04:48, January 23, 2018 (UTC) :::That is correct as well. In the case of Phokas, Herakleios decapitated him in a brief flash of anger. Since Herakleios had won at that point, I suppose you could call it a legalistic regicide, aka, execution, retroactively. :::Irrespective, we agree that these circumstances qualify as regicide, yes? TR (talk) 16:46, January 23, 2018 (UTC) :::Agreed. I do disprove of the unilateral change to "Assassination" that Jonathan made and have reversed it. Any discussion on that? I feel, under the circumstances, it does not fit and murder would be closer. Which I have already said was redundant. ML4E (talk) 18:05, January 23, 2018 (UTC) ::::It's not assassination. It wasn't "I must kill this official for a reason" it was "you've pissed me off, now you must die". ::::I'm ok with leaving murder to distinguish from execution--as Jonathan notes, we have "legal regicides", and both Charles and Louis are in the regicide and execution categories. This would be a "legal murder" only by Richard Nixon's logic ("When the president does it, it's not illegal.") Any other circumstance where one person decapitated another in a flash of rage would be flat out murder. TR (talk) 18:38, January 23, 2018 (UTC) :::::So should we remove the "Regicides" cat from being a "Murders" sub-cat and double cat the appropriate individuals into both? It seems to me that if we leave it as is, then we work on the presumption that most "Regicides" are murders and only double cat the "legal regicides" as "Executions". Its not 100% accurate but seems to be an easier way to do things. ML4E (talk) 17:40, January 24, 2018 (UTC) ::::::I think I find the presumption that Regicides are automatically murders a little more nettling than double-catting them to murder. So I vote we remove it from murders and double cat as appropriate. TR (talk) 18:18, January 24, 2018 (UTC) :::::::I think I agree with TR. Turtle Fan (talk) 23:07, January 24, 2018 (UTC) :::::::Fine with me. I mainly wanted to get the categorizations straight. ML4E (talk) 19:55, January 25, 2018 (UTC)